Is anyone running a BPSA and BSA program at the same time?

I am wondering if there's a way to create an "all of the above" approach, anyone?

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As far as I'm concerned, the BPSA *is* "all of the above." I'm not entirely sure why anyone would stick with a BSA program at the same time... really doesn't make much sense. But that's just me.

Hi Clarke - I ran a BSA Webelos program with a BPSA Pathfinder program at the same time for about 6 months while transitioning to BPSA, but I kept the activities of each group separate, even though there were two scouts participating in both groups.

Also, not sure if this is what you're getting at, but this past weekend, the 91st Sojourners hosted "Camp Friendship" with BSA Troop 118 from Cornwall, NY. (The Scoutmaster there is the grandfather of one of our Timberwolves and one of our Pathfinders). We invited some GS-US Juilettes and a GS-US Troop to join us as well, but they weren't able to make it due to scheduling issues. This was a great opportunity for all the scouts to learn about each other's traditions, similarities and differences, and basically just have a fun time in the woods. After all, "a scout is a friend to all and a brother or sister to each and every scout, no matter to what country, class or creed the other may belong."

What I am exploring is a way to have both programs running together simultaneously.
Focusing on the pathfinder age division at first. I'd rather not make it an either/or decision but an "all of the above" offering.

From my perspective (as a BPSA GSM, former BSA Assistant Scoutmaster, Committee member and Webelos Leader), while I respect the aspiration behind your question, this would be extremely difficult to put in to practice, as there are significant differences between BPSA's and BSA's program, including:

(1) The language and intent (backed by policies) of both the promise and the law
(2) The uniform
(3) The differences in emphasis on using the Patrol Method

These three qualities are what bring life to the the philosophy of scouting (lowercase "s"), yet at the same time constitute the differences between Scouting (upper case "S", the BSA-owned commodity) and Traditional Scouting as practiced by BPSA. Having worked closely with both organizations, allowing these differences to coexist in the same group would be problematic, lead to confusion, and put adult leaders and Rovers in awkward positions with the communities and organizations that they represent.

In addition, one of the biggest differences in the implementation of program by both organization is that of "Achievement" in BSA and "Proficiency" in BPSA. While there is overlap in many skill sets that are being learned, these values create different ways of teaching material, as well as ask scouts to rise to different standards.

-AB







Clarke Green said:

What I am exploring is a way to have both programs running together simultaneously.
Focusing on the pathfinder age division at first. I'd rather not make it an either/or decision but an "all of the above" offering.

From what I have gathered there are folks who are involved in both programs(BSA and BPSA) where most started with BSA since BPSA is fairly new. (Boy Scouts have us by a couple years.)   I don't see much of an issue since the base skills are the same, but I would think it would be a boat load of work running two programs at same time. 

From there you could work into your program events where both Troops gratherand work together like Andy and I did this past weekend.

In the same group? No, not a good idea. Be sure to focus on the section in the Introduction to Traditional Scouting PDF that details the differences between the two programs (as Andy alluded to above, but in more detail).

Clarke Green said:

What I am exploring is a way to have both programs running together simultaneously.
Focusing on the pathfinder age division at first. I'd rather not make it an either/or decision but an "all of the above" offering.

What I could imagine working would be for a lone scout (from either organization) attending another Troop's meeting for the benefit of having a group to associate with, but, at the same time, separating to focus on different skills and approaches to learning as necessary.

I've seen this work for some kids who, for example, have a 4H group, but wear their scout uniform to meetings, and participate in activities when there is common interest.







Jeff Kopp said:

In the same group? No, not a good idea. Be sure to focus on the section in the Introduction to Traditional Scouting PDF that details the differences between the two programs (as Andy alluded to above, but in more detail).

Clarke Green said:

What I am exploring is a way to have both programs running together simultaneously.
Focusing on the pathfinder age division at first. I'd rather not make it an either/or decision but an "all of the above" offering.

Clarke, I will add this to clarify what I posted.  For both programs to be mixed I don't see that working.  Two programs running independent from each other yes, but again a boat load to take on.  Having a joint campout from time to time, very doable.  Just my two cents.

The BPSA is also a coed organization, with a large portion (possibly even a majority) of our scouts being girls. So to do something where you're trying to include BPSA and BSA might also be seen as being particularly UNfriendly (exclusionary) to girls, unless you also decide to include your local GSUSA unit. See where this is leading?

This is why we have our own program.


Thanks Andy -

I don't see much difference between what I am currently doing in the BSA and the BPSA. However I see a big difference between what we do and other BSA troops.
I agree that what I am suggesting is difficult, but that doesn't have to mean impossible.
Perhaps it would never work, perhaps it would. 

The challenge for all of us is shaping the best approach that serves our communities by positively affecting the lives of children with Scouting. I am just exploring the possibilities.

Andy Bicking said:

From my perspective (as a BPSA GSM, former BSA Assistant Scoutmaster, Committee member and Webelos Leader), while I respect the aspiration behind your question, this would be extremely difficult to put in to practice, as there are significant differences between BPSA's and BSA's program, including:

(1) The language and intent (backed by policies) of both the promise and the law
(2) The uniform
(3) The differences in emphasis on using the Patrol Method

These three qualities are what bring life to the the philosophy of scouting (lowercase "s"), yet at the same time constitute the differences between Scouting (upper case "S", the BSA-owned commodity) and Traditional Scouting as practiced by BPSA. Having worked closely with both organizations, allowing these differences to coexist in the same group would be problematic, lead to confusion, and put adult leaders and Rovers in awkward positions with the communities and organizations that they represent.

In addition, one of the biggest differences in the implementation of program by both organization is that of "Achievement" in BSA and "Proficiency" in BPSA. While there is overlap in many skill sets that are being learned, these values create different ways of teaching material, as well as ask scouts to rise to different standards.

-AB







Clarke Green said:

What I am exploring is a way to have both programs running together simultaneously.
Focusing on the pathfinder age division at first. I'd rather not make it an either/or decision but an "all of the above" offering.

Couldn't agree more!: "The challenge for all of us is shaping the best approach that serves our communities by positively affecting the lives of children with Scouting."






Clarke Green said:


Thanks Andy -

I don't see much difference between what I am currently doing in the BSA and the BPSA. However I see a big difference between what we do and other BSA troops.
I agree that what I am suggesting is difficult, but that doesn't have to mean impossible.
Perhaps it would never work, perhaps it would. 

The challenge for all of us is shaping the best approach that serves our communities by positively affecting the lives of children with Scouting. I am just exploring the possibilities.

Andy Bicking said:

From my perspective (as a BPSA GSM, former BSA Assistant Scoutmaster, Committee member and Webelos Leader), while I respect the aspiration behind your question, this would be extremely difficult to put in to practice, as there are significant differences between BPSA's and BSA's program, including:

(1) The language and intent (backed by policies) of both the promise and the law
(2) The uniform
(3) The differences in emphasis on using the Patrol Method

These three qualities are what bring life to the the philosophy of scouting (lowercase "s"), yet at the same time constitute the differences between Scouting (upper case "S", the BSA-owned commodity) and Traditional Scouting as practiced by BPSA. Having worked closely with both organizations, allowing these differences to coexist in the same group would be problematic, lead to confusion, and put adult leaders and Rovers in awkward positions with the communities and organizations that they represent.

In addition, one of the biggest differences in the implementation of program by both organization is that of "Achievement" in BSA and "Proficiency" in BPSA. While there is overlap in many skill sets that are being learned, these values create different ways of teaching material, as well as ask scouts to rise to different standards.

-AB







Clarke Green said:

What I am exploring is a way to have both programs running together simultaneously.
Focusing on the pathfinder age division at first. I'd rather not make it an either/or decision but an "all of the above" offering.

I'd be happy to have every child in our community who is interested in Scouting get the best experience possible. What I am looking for is a way to have Scouting without the tribalism of organizations. That means girls, boys, and adults of goodwill, the rest is window dressing.

BPSA, BSA, GSA, are three organizational structures that contain a common spirit, shared with the rest of the world Scouting movement. If we focus on the things we hold in common the differences are insignificant.

I can say from experience these organizational differences are usually only made significant by adults, given the opportunity Scouts act as though they don't exist. During our trips to Kandersteg in Switzerland my Scouts blend seamlessly into the fabric of Scouting, there are different uniforms and other merely decorative things like that, the spirit is was counts.


Jeff Kopp said:

The BPSA is also a coed organization, with a large portion (possibly even a majority) of our scouts being girls. So to do something where you're trying to include BPSA and BSA might also be seen as being particularly UNfriendly (exclusionary) to girls, unless you also decide to include your local GSUSA unit. See where this is leading?

This is why we have our own program.

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